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Profile DoctorNow
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Message 27 - Posted: 28 Jan 2008, 11:25:26 UTC

Hello!

Some of my results which were normally validated got very low credit values:
260533, 259182, 256869 and some other.

What\'s the reason about it?

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Message 31 - Posted: 28 Jan 2008, 12:09:02 UTC
Last modified: 28 Jan 2008, 12:54:41 UTC

http://mindmodeling.org/beta/result.php?resultid=262056
http://mindmodeling.org/beta/result.php?resultid=262836

The validator has not grant that, max errors not reached.

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Message 35 - Posted: 28 Jan 2008, 13:23:56 UTC

There is a cpu time problem on linux machines, so 0sec=0 credits (min quorum 2 is always 0 too)

The second issue is that a WU is sending out up to 3 times to the same host!

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Message 39 - Posted: 28 Jan 2008, 16:25:51 UTC

I have a WU with 0 credits but it hasn\'t errored out, hmmm...

See http://mindmodeling.org/beta/result.php?resultid=257580
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Message 40 - Posted: 28 Jan 2008, 16:54:49 UTC
Last modified: 28 Jan 2008, 16:56:14 UTC

It looks like credit is based on the first valid result returned. If the first returned is linux, it gets credited with .001, and then all subsequent valid results also get credited with .001, regardless of claim. Until this is fixed, the linux (and Mac) apps should be removed/pulled.

1) Obviously the Linux problem needs to be fixed, so that they are awarded credit. Also so that they do not drag down the other wingmen.

2) I think the credit award method should change to something like the average of the first two, since a quorum of 2 are needed.

3) If a quorum of 2 are needed, an initial replication of 5 is *way* too many. IMO, an initial replication of 2 is what it should be set to. Bump it up to 3 if the project needs validated results quickly.
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Message 46 - Posted: 28 Jan 2008, 18:20:02 UTC - in response to Message 40.
Last modified: 28 Jan 2008, 19:19:11 UTC

It looks like credit is based on the first valid result returned. If the first returned is linux, it gets credited with .001, and then all subsequent valid results also get credited with .001, regardless of claim. Until this is fixed, the linux (and Mac) apps should be removed/pulled.

1) Obviously the Linux problem needs to be fixed, so that they are awarded credit. Also so that they do not drag down the other wingmen.

2) I think the credit award method should change to something like the average of the first two, since a quorum of 2 are needed.

3) If a quorum of 2 are needed, an initial replication of 5 is *way* too many. IMO, an initial replication of 2 is what it should be set to. Bump it up to 3 if the project needs validated results quickly.



Good Observations.
First in wins
-- This is the default/sample that comes with BOINC
-- I will try to fix this soon to something similar to what you suggest

I will look into the error you describe in #1

--Jack

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Message 50 - Posted: 28 Jan 2008, 18:29:38 UTC
Last modified: 28 Jan 2008, 18:31:08 UTC

Thanks for looking into it. ;)

Btw: I\'ve noticed that with WUs where I was granted 0.001 credits the WU was sent not only to a low-claiming Linux host, too - that Linux host got the same WU four (!) times!
And similar happened with me and a Dual Core as wingman. The Dual Core crunched the WU three times. And once he got such low credits (0.91) that it ruined my claimed credits... ;-)

See: http://mindmodeling.org/beta/workunit.php?wuid=48537

and: http://mindmodeling.org/beta/workunit.php?wuid=48554
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Message 70 - Posted: 28 Jan 2008, 19:17:16 UTC - in response to Message 46.

It looks like credit is based on the first valid result returned. If the first returned is linux, it gets credited with .001, and then all subsequent valid results also get credited with .001, regardless of claim. Until this is fixed, the linux (and Mac) apps should be removed/pulled.

1) Obviously the Linux problem needs to be fixed, so that they are awarded credit. Also so that they do not drag down the other wingmen.

2) I think the credit award method should change to something like the average of the first two, since a quorum of 2 are needed.

3) If a quorum of 2 are needed, an initial replication of 5 is *way* too many. IMO, an initial replication of 2 is what it should be set to. Bump it up to 3 if the project needs validated results quickly.



Good Observations.
First in wins
-- This is the default/sample that comes with BOINC
-- I will try to fix this soon to somethings similar to what you suggest

I will look into the error you describe in #1

--Jack



Thanks. I just re-read my post, and it comes off a bit harsh. Truly, I was not trying to demand anything, but rather just putting my opinions out there. Sorry for the less-than-pleasant tone.
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Message 72 - Posted: 28 Jan 2008, 19:20:53 UTC - in response to Message 50.

Btw: I\'ve noticed that with WUs where I was granted 0.001 credits the WU was sent not only to a low-claiming Linux host, too - that Linux host got the same WU four (!) times!


I believe there are three levels within the BOINC server, regarding results for the same WU:

1) multiple results from the same WU can be issued to the same machine

2) multiple results can be issued to the same user, but only one per each of his machines.

3) only one result per user, regardless of the number of machines.

It looks like we may be at #1 now. Usually, projects go with #2 at a minimum. This prevents a faulty box being able to validate a faulty result against itself. #3 is unnecessarily restrictive, IMO.
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Message 88 - Posted: 28 Jan 2008, 22:28:36 UTC - in response to Message 72.

Btw: I\'ve noticed that with WUs where I was granted 0.001 credits the WU was sent not only to a low-claiming Linux host, too - that Linux host got the same WU four (!) times!


I believe there are three levels within the BOINC server, regarding results for the same WU:

1) multiple results from the same WU can be issued to the same machine

2) multiple results can be issued to the same user, but only one per each of his machines.

3) only one result per user, regardless of the number of machines.

It looks like we may be at #1 now. Usually, projects go with #2 at a minimum. This prevents a faulty box being able to validate a faulty result against itself. #3 is unnecessarily restrictive, IMO.

Well, but in these cases I mentioned it was not so good because a) every Linux WU failed or b) the outcome was different although the same machine crunched the WU three times.
And I got always very low credits by that, too. ;-(
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Message 131 - Posted: 29 Jan 2008, 12:54:45 UTC

I get too much WUs with too short deadline, so every other project is stopped and the MindModeling WUs are all running with high priority. So I only can stop downloading WUs fom MindModeling.

Further the granted credits are too low, under 10 per hour on a Pentium D 3.00 GHz.

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Message 289 - Posted: 3 Feb 2008, 2:33:40 UTC - in response to Message 46.
Last modified: 3 Feb 2008, 2:39:44 UTC


3) If a quorum of 2 are needed, an initial replication of 5 is *way* too many. IMO, an initial replication of 2 is what it should be set to. Bump it up to 3 if the project needs validated results quickly.


Good Observations.
First in wins
-- This is the default/sample that comes with BOINC
-- I will try to fix this soon to something similar to what you suggest

--Jack

Other projects have often started with a high initial replication until they gained confidence that an initial replication of two works well, which utilizes a donor\'s computer resources efficiently and efficiently moves the project forward.

The heuristic projects like Rosetta and QMC only require one result because of the probabilistic nature of their calculations, while projects that use deterministic calculations such as Einstein@home are satisfied with an initial replication of two.

From my standpoint, I believe in the most efficient use of computer resources (including time and the cost of energy and reducing the carbon footprint), and so I heartedly support an initial replication of two! :)
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Message 290 - Posted: 3 Feb 2008, 2:34:05 UTC - in response to Message 46.
Last modified: 3 Feb 2008, 2:35:16 UTC

Double post, sorry, and I wish BOINC allowed a way to delete these!!
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Message 294 - Posted: 3 Feb 2008, 7:53:47 UTC - in response to Message 88.
Last modified: 3 Feb 2008, 7:54:30 UTC

Btw: I\'ve noticed that with WUs where I was granted 0.001 credits the WU was sent not only to a low-claiming Linux host, too - that Linux host got the same WU four (!) times!


I believe there are three levels within the BOINC server, regarding results for the same WU:

1) multiple results from the same WU can be issued to the same machine

2) multiple results can be issued to the same user, but only one per each of his machines.

3) only one result per user, regardless of the number of machines.

It looks like we may be at #1 now. Usually, projects go with #2 at a minimum. This prevents a faulty box being able to validate a faulty result against itself. #3 is unnecessarily restrictive, IMO.

Well, but in these cases I mentioned it was not so good because a) every Linux WU failed or b) the outcome was different although the same machine crunched the WU three times.(

To make the results ensured the system of quorum is used, I think.

suguruhirahara
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Message 538 - Posted: 24 Mar 2008, 4:56:00 UTC - in response to Message 294.
Last modified: 24 Mar 2008, 4:58:27 UTC

A new results validator has been added to MM@Home

Credit is now given in the following way.
After 2 valid results are returned for a workunit, the average of the 2 credits requests are given

Valid = proper return data structure etc

Now that validity of results are checked the averaging of good work with broken results(.001 run-times) no longer occurs. This should help strange granting values from occurring.

--Jack

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Message 590 - Posted: 3 Apr 2008, 20:20:32 UTC - in response to Message 538.

Credit is now given in the following way.
After 2 valid results are returned for a workunit, the average of the 2 credits requests are given


The average is not being given, it\'s still granting the lowest request. Here are some examples:
http://mindmodeling.org/beta/workunit.php?wuid=263736
http://mindmodeling.org/beta/workunit.php?wuid=264165
http://mindmodeling.org/beta/workunit.php?wuid=266407
http://mindmodeling.org/beta/workunit.php?wuid=264305
http://mindmodeling.org/beta/workunit.php?wuid=264214
http://mindmodeling.org/beta/workunit.php?wuid=275172

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Message 595 - Posted: 8 Apr 2008, 15:52:13 UTC
Last modified: 8 Apr 2008, 15:52:39 UTC

All mine are still giving the first one in, which I am not that one, and not the average of the two. Its a struggle when a WU takes over an hour to complete yet I only get a few points for it.

Ni

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Message 599 - Posted: 8 Apr 2008, 23:50:35 UTC

Good point. it looks like the credits are still be granted based on first in, rather than the average of the quorum. Can this please be changed?
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Message 600 - Posted: 9 Apr 2008, 0:01:07 UTC
Last modified: 9 Apr 2008, 0:01:28 UTC

It\'s not granting first in, it\'s granting the lowest. On this wu I was the first to report but I was granted the lower amount.

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Message 601 - Posted: 9 Apr 2008, 1:23:44 UTC - in response to Message 600.

It\'s not granting first in, it\'s granting the lowest. On this wu I was the first to report but I was granted the lower amount.

Ouch! That\'s even worse!


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